Comments November thru December 2003
30 Nov. 2003
Shalom:
I just finished your article on the Mogen David, I praise G-d for your bold stand and obedience in this matter. Through His precepts I get understanding, therefore I hate every false way.
I am not ethnically Jewish, but am a 'grafted in' Gentile through the precious blood of Yeshua. I recently left my position as worship leader at an evangelical church because I felt I could no longer in good conscience continue going along to get along with things such as the pagan holidays, secret rapture belief, and warmongering spirit/inability to separate America from the Kingdom Of God...I left the Assembly Of God where I was leading worship before that because of the merger I perceived taking place with Catholicism through things like watering down of the doctrinal statement, Promise Keepers, ECT statement, etc.
I have been attending Shabbat on Friday evenings at a nearby Messianic Jewish congregation, but today was my first Saturday service. At about the midway point, the large cabinet positioned in the corner of the platform was opened and what I later learned to be scrolls was removed, but at first was rolled up and covered and appeared to be topped with some sort of golden crown. One of the brothers walked the aisles of the sanctuary, children following, and I noticed people kissing the roll, of kissing their hand and touching the roll, or touching it with their Bibles. When he passed by me I did not do it, although I felt awkward, as though I was expected to, but I have made up my mind I will not follow along blindly anymore, unless I can do so with a clear conscience, and as you said in the article about the Mogen David, to be able to 'biblically state to anyone, 'why I do the religious, ceremonial, symbolic things that I do.' Is this more of a "tradition"...do I do a disservice to the Lord by not participating? I love His word and try to honor it by living it out, and hiding it in my heart. I would appreciate your comments on this.
Thank you and stay encouraged...
Trenet
Dear Trenet,
Shalom: May His Peace surround you today and His Wisdom lead you into His Ways.
Thank you very much. I agree wholeheartedly with you about getting understanding through God's precepts. And I am very glad that you have left the old church are charting out new Waters with His Spirit.
Kissing the Ark or the Torah Scroll (five books of Moses), is certainly a tradition in Judaism. I remember when I was young that if you dropped a religious book, you picked it up off the floor and kissed it. Out of respect for the book and it's contents. And it didn't necessarily have to be a religious book.
The kissing of the Torah Scroll is supposed to be, and is in many instances, a sign of affection for God's Word. It is a tradition but tradition is not necessarily evil. Only those traditions that nullify the Word of God are evil. There are good traditions though. The Jewish tradition of having four cups of wine for the Passover Meal, is where we get Communion. Nothing in Scripture for the original Passover (Ex. 12), spoke of having wine. But it was there that night for Yeshua to give to His students (disciples; talmidim in Hebrew, students). So we have to discern if the tradition is evil or not. If not, then it can stand. (Not many in the Church realize that half of Communion comes from a Jewish tradition associated with Passover. And that the other half of Communion comes from the Jewish Holy Feast of Passover; the bread should be unleavened (matzah: Ex. 12:8), and I imagine, originally was. Today of course, any bread will suffice but if it's leavened bread, what the person is saying is that Christ's Body was full of sin; 1st Cor. 5:1-8.)
There is nothing in Scripture where God commands the kissing of the scroll and here we get into undefined waters. What I mean by that is that it's obviously not a sin to kiss or to touch, a Torah scroll or a Bible, showing one's affection for God and Torah through it. But is it 'kosher'? How does God view it? I know from experience that I've seen some people go overboard, going crazy in their fervor (usually non-Messianic Jews in traditional synagogues), in that they are obviously expressing too much 'affection' for it. But perversion of something by a group or a person, does not mean that it's actually bad.
In my early time as shepherd of the Seed of Abraham in Tulsa, OK, we would walk the Scroll around. It was a way of elevating the Word of God in the midst of the community, in a physical way.
The Bible, in many evangelical circles, is highly regarded, as it should be, as God's Word. Walking the Scroll around, the precursor to the Bible, I think is just an expression of this esteem. It's a way of thanking God for His Word.
The kissing aspect relates to how we as human beings, show emotion to those we love. As with any tradition it can get perverted but again, where is the tradition in God's eyes?, and who is doing it?
There are many things in Judaism, and unfortunately in Messianic Judaism, as much of the time, Messianic Jews, in wanting 'to be Jewish' and be seen as Jewish by their non-Messianic brethren, have taken whole chunks of tradition and walked in it themselves. This is one of them. It's hard for me to put my finger on any pagan or perverse origins of this practice. But there are some, like the wearing of the kipa/yarmulkah (traditional head covering), that is very pagan. Or studying or taking things from Kabbalah, or some/much of rabbinic teaching (which is often anti-Messiah and filled with Kabbalah. For more on these please see my articles:
The Kipa
Kabbalah
Jewish Idolatry
As for the kissing of the Scroll/Word of God, I think the best thing for you would be to just let the Spirit of Yeshua lead you in this matter.
And if you have any other concerns/questions, etc., please feel free to let me know,
Avram
I am so grateful to have been sent your email - which began with the explanation of the Star of David. It broke my heart. But I think we will take down the flag in our Congregation Meeting room; do you suppose a new flag, say with the Lion of Judah might be forthcoming some day? Or at least a new flag of some kind? Your balance and sense of integrity in your writings blesses me!
Shalom,
Carol D.
Thank you, Carol.
When we learn the Truth, His Truth, it may very well break our hearts. I know miine was struck when I first learned the truth about the Star of David. I couldn't believe it but I knew it was true. Out went many things with the star on it, to the trash. I couldn't, in godly conscience, have them when I was supposed to be an example, a living example, of His Truth. Truth and deception are not good partners. And when found out, one has to go.
Good for you! To take down the flag of the Star in your congregational meeting room. We used to have a beautiful flag of Israel, many years ago, before I learned of the Star but when I learned of it, it had to go to.
There are flags with the Lion of Judah on it. They are flags of Jerusalem. It's the city's emblem and it's beautiful. With the Wailing/Western Wall of the Temple Mount in the background.
Thank you again for your email. It tells me that you desire Yeshua more than the traditions of men that nullify Who He is.
May His Glory Shine forth from you,
Avram
Dear Avram,
I have benefited much from some of your articles. I have printed them out and shared them with people who wanted the truth on such issues as the "Star of David" and the "Kipa".
I have been studying about the Talmud. I have read your article concerning the Talmud. It is very good, but one thing troubles me, you stated" as helpful as it might be on some occasions and as destructive as it might be on others, it is not divinely authoritative", now the thing that bothers me is that you said it could be helpful on some occasions. I do not agree, the Talmud should never be considered helpful, not on any occasion. Have you studied about this book, in depth?
It states the most blasphemous things about our Saviour and Redeemer, Yeshua. It really does "make void the laws of God". It is full of perversion, racism and demonology. I have been studying this topic for a month, along with several friends. We have done much research and my conclusion is, anyone that proclaims they follow Yeshua, our Messiah, should not have anything to do with the anti-Christ , wicked, perverse, evil writings contained in the Talmud.
I like your article, you bring forth much truth about the Talmud, but I would hope you would take a deeper look into this subject and perhaps would retract your statement in the last paragraph of the article. This statement infers that at times the Talmud might be helpful. I must disagree in love. IT is truly a book that no believer should ever refer to. You are right, it is not divinely authoritative, it is inspired by Satan himself. My heart goes out to all of the Jewish people who are held in bondage to the Talmudic teachings of the rabbis, who exalt the Talmud above the Torah, and also to the "Messianics" who listen to Messianic teachers quote the Talmud, like it is just a "historical book" or a Biblical commentary. (It actually makes null and void the Laws of YAH.) When in reality, if they studied, and knew what was contained in it, they would be sickened. I think that some who quote the Talmud, are probably just quoting someone else's statements, and they, personally don't really know much about the perverse, racism, and sexual depravity contained within it's pages.
Avram, my point is, I think you wrote a fine article. I want to print it out and share it with others because of all the truth you bring forth, but......... the statement in the last paragraph saying "as helpful as it might be on some occasions"........ I just cannot agree with that ... any book that says such things, especially about our Messiah Yeshua, could never be helpful.
I truly hope I have not offended you. I am about to read your article on the Virgin Birth, I have glanced over it, but want to read it slowly. I am very glad you have written this because there are many "Messianics" denying the Virgin Birth and the deity of our Messiah Yeshua. I really do appreciate your labors, and your work is a blessing to me and those I share it with.
With love in our Messiah,
Janet G. , Your Sister in Yeshua
Dear Janet,
Shalom: May His Peace surround you today and His Hand be upon you to lead you into all His Truth.
Thank you Janet. I appreciate your desire for God's Truth and also to bring to my attention a possible need for correction. Before I get into that though, I like to say that I hope you find the Virgin Birth helpful. I know that a number of believers, Jews and Gentiles, have been deceived into questioning and denying the miraculous conception of Yeshua in Miryam's womb. That's too bad for them.
As for your critique of the Talmud, it is not a book per se but many volumes (approx. 35 by Soncino in English), with about two and a half million words covering Jewish law and superstition and most everything in-between) written by many different people over 500 years or more. And that's a major point. It's not written by one or two authors with a particular viewpoint on demons or Yeshua or perversion, etc. It's more like a gigantic commentary with both good and evil.
On the one hand you say that you've been studying it for about a month now but on the other you say that one shouldn't read it. So I imagine that you're studying 'about' it, from a writing that has a particular slant against it (for it's perverse writing on Yeshua, etc.). But here, all you're getting is the evil. With just that understanding, I too would be against the reading or use of it.
The few things written about Yeshua (which they call Yeshua; an acronym for: May His Name be Blotted Out), however evil and gross they are, and some of them are really gross, only occupy an extremely tiny space compared to the entire work.
What I meant by the Talmud being helpful has to do with its recording of things like the Temple rites and rituals which cast tremendous light on some of the sayings and meanings of Yeshua (like His call to those who thirst (Jn. 7:37ff), at the water drawing ceremony for Sukote: Feast of Tabernacles, with all it's implications of Messiah and what Messiah would give Israel: Living Waters).
You wrote about the Talmud that, 'It actually makes null and void the Laws of YAH', but are you suggesting that all the laws of Yahveh are made void by the Talmud? And if not, which ones? If making void a law of Yahveh was a criteria for not reading something, most Christian literature couldn't be read as it either states or implies that the Law of Moses is done away with.
I'm currently reading a book about a tremendous man of God called John G. Lake. I am in awe of the incredible things that the Holy Spirit did through this man. But when it comes to his theology on say, the Sabbath or the Torah, he was as much in the dark as most any Christian in his time (he died in 1935). The reason I brought this up is to say that when it comes to things I know that aren't true, like Lake's understanding of the Sabbath, I realize that, as powerful as he was in the Spirit, he didn't have any Light on the subject of God's true Sabbath. But I glean what I can from him. The same is true of the Talmud. There are some beautiful things in it and some very gross things in it (that have absolutely nothing to do with Yeshua), and some things that are run of the mill. I don't study it per se but find it extremely useful in presenting Messiah Yeshua to those in the Jewish community that hold it in some esteem. The ancient Rabbis before Yeshua had some keen insight about a Messiah dying for their sins (Sanhedrin 98a/b), which they called Messiah the Son of Joseph, out of understanding Is. 53 and the Suffering Servant of Yahveh being rejected by Israel (Is. 53:4-5). You might want to read the latest Jewish Newsletters (# 28 & #29) and see all the good things that the Talmud had to say about Messiah, and how perfect it fits Yeshua.
Now, if the Talmud was all superstition, like Kabbalah, that's another story. I know that there are too many ignorant Jewish leaders and people in the Messianic community that are teaching and using Kabbalah and not realizing it's Babylonian witchcraft in Jewish clothes.
I'm also not in favor of studying Talmud per se, but it's nice to know certain passages that are helpful to us, whether for understanding more about Yeshua or being able to present him from an ancient rabbinic point of view, or just to know how the procedure for the morning sacrifice went about (as in A. Edersheim's, The Temple and it's Ministry, where there are a number of Talmudic cites noted), etc.
Again, I thank you and note your concern. I hope you can understand my position.
Avram
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